In this episode of The Inspire Podcast, Bart Egnal speaks with Breann Kelly, Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel at Ewing Morris, about why a growth mindset is more important than ever.
Breann reflects on her career journey and the choices that shaped it, sharing how a consistent focus on learning and curiosity guided her path from law into the world of investment management. She discusses what it takes to navigate uncertainty, build confidence in new environments, and lead through moments of real pressure, including guiding the firm through the COVID era and helping evolve the business along the way.
A clear through line in the conversation is the power of a growth mindset. Breann shares how a willingness to step into new spaces and learn along the way has shaped her career, and why that mindset continues to matter in a world defined by AI and constant change. Her insights offer a clear lens on how to keep progressing, even when the path ahead is uncertain.
00:23 Standard show intro
01:00 Introducing Breann
01:37 What is Ewing Morris?
02:23 Bart’s disclaimer: I am a client and investor
03:13 Bart introduces the concept of “embracing the growth mindset”
03:47 How it all began for Breann
04:28 Specializing in the asset management space
05:08 BlackRock gig
05:46 Why did you leave the predictable legal profession path?
06:51 Legal profession — live to work rather than work to live
09:10 Moving from BlackRock to Ewing Morris
09:34 Natural ceiling at BlackRock Canada
13:24 Bart observes her ambition for advancement
13:51 What questions should people be asking of their current career path?
14:01 Through-line: passion for learning and growing
14:36 Challenge yourself: if you're not challenging yourself, you're not growing
15:45 The culture shock moving to EM
16:12 New mom + new job
17:21 Imposter syndrome challenge
17:42 You can't learn everyone’s jobs inside out as a manager
18:58 From big support team to team of one
19:04 The buck really stopped with me
19:26 The more you seek reassurance, the more it erodes confidence
21:05 Staying relevant in the age of AI?
21:51 Leading through the COVID era
23:58 The business impact of COVID on the markets
27:34 Fixed vs. growth mindset
28:07 The genesis of the SPV business
28:30 SPVs explained
31:21 Pivoting to wealth management
33:01 Aventine
34:18 Bart observes growth mindset at EM
35:04 Pale, male, and stale
35:41 How to have a growth mindset in turbulent/changing times
35:51 Advice: challenge yourself to always do hard things
36:03 Fostering a growth mindset with her kids
36:27 Always find something hard to do!
Breann Kelly: If you just always find an opportunity to do something hard, and I think that if there's anything that you're avoiding doing, that's a good sign that it's a hard thing that you should be leaning into. And so I think if you pr, the more you practice doing hard things, the better you get at, you know, building that confidence.
So always finding ways to challenge yourself and every day starting in your personal life and moving into your career.
Bart Egnal: Welcome to the Inspire Podcast, where we examine what it takes to intentionally inspire. I'm your host, Bart Egnal president and CEO of the Humphrey Group, and if you've ever asked yourself, how can you develop an authentic leadership presence, or how can you tell stories that.
Have people hanging off every word. Well, then this podcast is for you, and it's not just for executives. This is a podcast for anyone who wants to influence and inspire others in their work, but also in their life.
Bart Egnal: So my guests on today's episode of the Inspire Podcast is Breann Kelly, and Breann is the Chief Operating Officer and general counsel of Ewing Morris, which is a boutique investment firm. In Toronto, Breann, thanks for joining me on the Inspire Pod today.
Breann Kelly: Thanks for having me, Bart.
Bart Egnal: Yeah, it's a, it's great to have you.
And I have to say, I'm honored to be your very first podcast appearance, first of many, I'm sure.
Breann Kelly: Yeah. Thank you. I've listened to, I'm a big podcast consumer, so I'm excited to be on the other side of the microphone.
Bart Egnal: Yeah, well, I'm sure all the, uh, all the listening time you put in Will, will pay off. Um, and, you know, for those who, who don't know, Ewing Morris, give us the, uh, the 32nd spiel.
What is Ewing Morris, what is it all about in the investment business?
Breann Kelly: Yeah, so as you mentioned, Ewing Morris is a boutique investment firm and wealth management, um, business here in Toronto. The firm was founded 15 years ago by John Ewing and Darcy Morris started as one individual fund that was offered [00:02:00] to high net worth investors, and we've really grown our business from there to be close to a billion dollars in assets with.
Several different funds as well as full scale wealth management offerings. Um, so we help to manage money and plan for financial futures mm-hmm. For, um, over 500 clients in Canada and wealthy families, and, uh, help people. Plan for their financial features.
Bart Egnal: Yeah, and I should disclose, I've been a client, I, I got to know Darcy and John more than 15 years ago when they were at, uh, another firm that has been featured on this podcast, burgundy and, uh, have followed along with the journey.
And, uh, just think what you guys are doing. It's great. Not only am I investor, I'm a client, so it's, uh, I think highly of it.
Breann Kelly: Thank you.
Bart Egnal: And I, and I think highly of you and you know, I've gotten to know you and we started having this conversation around. I have the unique journey that you've taken to the world of investment management.
You're not an investment professional, uh, but you That's right. But you play one on TV and you know, we, we talked about your career, so. [00:03:00] Let's just, and I think when we, when we were playing for this pod and we were reflecting on your career, uh, I was quite struck by the leaps that you've taken some, in retrospect, some bold moves away from very, you know, safe.
What seemed like safe and predictable, uh, glide paths to success and time after time you kept. Leaving them for kind of the great unknown. And it really struck me. Um, and you described it as, you know, embracing a growth mindset. And I think, you know, when we look at the world that we're in today and the world is, uh, you know, those kind of predictable paths, uh, are increasingly tenuous.
You know, people are wondering what does the future hold? What does my career hold? How do I thrive? How do I adapt? I thought it was important for us, uh, to have you on and you can share your own expertise and wisdom, and that gave you the courage. So maybe take us back to how it all began for you. Where'd you start your career and what were your early days like?
Breann Kelly: Yeah. Thanks Bart. And yeah, it's, it's [00:04:00] always an interesting exercise to kind of revisit your path and all the, uh, all the moves that you made, which might seem like a little bit crazy in retrospect, but luckily have worked out for me thus far. So, uh, I started my career as a corporate lawyer. I grew up in, I grew up in a small town and nose.
Scotia Stellar to Nova Scotia, did all my university law school and in Halifax, and I moved to Toronto for an article job at a big law firm. And so that was my first time, you know, kind of experiencing that world. And I started practicing corporate securities law really. Enjoyed it. Had a lot of great clients and found myself specializing in the asset management space.
And I had quite a few clients who were mutual funds, ETFs, that sort of thing. Mm-hmm. And really liked the work. Really learned a lot. Uh, and I was actually offered the opportunity to go on secondment to one of my larger clients at the time. Um, BlackRock Asset Management. You may have heard of them. Mm-hmm.
A little firm known as BlackRock. Yeah. Little, little firm. And so Larry called you [00:05:00] up and
Bart Egnal: said, Breann, why don't you
Breann Kelly: come on board? Exactly. He called me. He sent the private jet. That's right. And um, and I just jumped on. So I went there initially on a three months, that turned into a five year full-time role in the legal and compliance department of BlackRock.
So I went there to. Fill in. And they ended up offering me a full-time role where I was responsible for overseeing the, the le all the legal and compliance aspects of the iShares ETF business primarily. Mm-hmm. I, you know, I wasn't looking to leave private practice right at that time, and I just wanna,
Bart Egnal: just wanna pause there for a moment.
So, yeah. You, you know, very, um, the path that most corporate lawyers take is, starts like the one you did. You know, they go to law school, they article, they start working with these firms and it's, you know. You're an arcing student and then you're an associate, and then you're an income partner, and then you're partner like, but you decided that you weren't gonna do that.
Like what was the, the thinking behind that, that you had this kind of predictable path and that for the first time you were gonna take, take a step off it and leave and go to BlackRock? Yeah. [00:06:00] I'd like to say that it was all part of a, you
Breann Kelly: know, full scale master plan. Right. But I think, I think it was more akin to, you know, seeing an opportunity and not wanting it to pass me by.
And so I think, like you said, when you start at a corporate law firm, there is a really predictable path. And you know, even down to the year you start, you one year as an Ling student, usually seven or eight years as an associate, then you become a partner and. You know, I knew pretty early on that that was not going to be the path that resonated the most with me and what I wanted for my life.
Why? I think because, you know, a couple of reasons. One, I didn't see a lot of models at that time, and that was, you know, going on, not to date myself too much, but that was going on 20 years ago. And so I'd like to think things have changed, but I didn't see a lot of models of women. In that kind of equity partner role that we're kind of living the life that I aspire to.
And I could tell that, you know, even when you become equity partner at a law firm, it's still a real [00:07:00] grind and it's still you kind of. Live to work rather than mm-hmm. Working to live, I think is, is very common in the profession and I just, I felt a little bit disillusioned by it and, um, that I didn't necessarily have those examples of mm-hmm.
You know, what I was striving towards in my, in my personal life as well. And so I always knew that that was maybe not the, the right path that resonated with me and my, you know, my personal goals and values. Um, but I didn't really know how I was planning to pivot. You know, at that point I was just feeling happy to be here.
Mm-hmm. Because I had, you know, making this big jump in my career. And so when this opportunity came up at BlackRock, the secondment was great because I got to kind of try on for size, working in an in-house environment, which. A lot of people, a lot of lawyers leave private practice to go in-house because it's, uh, more of a, you know, a lifestyle fit or, you know, for various reasons.
And for me, there was definitely that element, but also that I was learning so much and it really uncovered or almost rekindled the passion in finance for me. And so [00:08:00] before I went to law school, I did an undergrad, uh, in finance and I thought for a while about maybe doing a CFA or going down that route.
So this was just, um. Kind of a, a fortuitous, um, right. You know, circle back to where I thought my career might head. And I really found it fascinating working with all the different elements of the business. Mm-hmm. You know, when I worked, when I worked at a law firm, we, I was always involved in, in like one particular deal Right.
Or one particular transaction. And, you know, you get to know your client for a little while and then when that's. Done. You kind of move on. Right. And so that was, to me, that was the part where it was just getting interesting. Mm-hmm. And I wanted to know what the business was gonna do next, and you know, how everything else worked.
Mm-hmm. And so working in an in-house environment really allowed me to kind of dig deeper, learn all of the different aspects of the business, not just the legal elements of it. Mm-hmm. And to really hone my understanding of, of. Personal finance, portfolio, construction, um, you know, different types of investment vehicles.
And you, it was really just a wonderful five [00:09:00] years for me there at BlackRock.
Bart Egnal: And then from there, instead of staying at BlackRock, you jumped to a very tiny ship. You, you jumped from kind of like the ocean liar to a tiny ship. Tell me how you got connected with Ewing Morris, and then what led you to have the, you know, call it bravery in retrospect, I mean, for foresight as well.
To make this switch.
Breann Kelly: I mean, I think that was, that was a bit of a, a stroke of luck as well. I had been, as I mentioned, I was a, I had been at BlackRock for about five years at that point, and I was really starting to think about what would be the next stage in my career. I think I was hitting a bit of a natural ceiling, um, during my time at BlackRock because.
The Canadian office of BlackRock was a smaller arm of a much larger global organization. We had, you know, although there are tens of thousands of people that work at BlackRock globally, there were only about 80 people in the Canadian office. And opportunities for advancement are somewhat limited unless you were, you know, willing to move to New York City at the time.
And this was before the days [00:10:00] of hybrid or remote work. And so FaceTime really was at a premium. And so I actually have been exploring another role at BlackRock. Um, they were looking for me to move to New York to take, and I was having a real crisis of confidence about it because I had just had a baby at that time.
I was actually on maternity leave okay. With my son, who was only a few months old. And, you know, as I was kind of grappling with this existential life decision. I, one of my friends said to me, you know, I, I know these guys that, uh, are operating a hedge fund up at Young and St. Clair, and they're looking for somebody and maybe you should meet them.
Hmm. And so I, uh, you know, found a babysitter for my son who, and, uh, and I took the, I took the meeting and I was intrigued from the very beginning. It was in, you know, in all respects, the opposite of BlackRock rather than a global behemoth. That was, uh. You know, a, a small investment boutique with about 10 employees at the time, started by John and Darcy.
They started the business when they were in their early thirties. So they [00:11:00] were, you know, young guys. Mm-hmm. Really ambitious and they were really looking to grow, you know, back in 2017 or 2018 when I first met them, the firm was, I think just over 200 million in assets and it's since almost quadrupled in size.
So that's a testament to their vision, but they were looking for somebody. You know, I went into it thinking they were looking for a, a lawyer, a general counsel. Mm-hmm. And they said, you know, actually it's a lot broader than that. We're looking for somebody who can. Lead legal, lead compliance, lead operations, you know, keep the trains running on time, right.
And, uh, you know, keep everybody rowing in the same direction. And that was, you know, something I wasn't totally expecting, but that was really welcome to me because for a while I had been thinking about, um, pivoting to more of a business, right. Or a business legal hybrid role, um, having had that exposure to the business at BlackRock.
And so it just seemed really appealing to me because I. You know, I know that there's a lot of overlap between operations and [00:12:00] legal in particular, and there's a lot of, um, a lot of the same problems solving skills, right. I think can be used in both capacities. And so, um, I can't, you know, looking back in hindsight, it was a little bit crazy.
Maybe I can, uh, maybe I can attribute some of my. Courage to, to youth and inexperience. But it was, uh, you know. Yeah,
Bart Egnal: because you're really old ette.
Breann Kelly: Yeah. I had The end of your
Bart Egnal: career is coming.
Breann Kelly: I know. Well, my son, my son who was, uh, you know, he's eight, eight and a half now. Mm-hmm. He was six months. Old at the time.
And uh, I said, you know, I like this idea, but I have this, I'm planning to be on maternity leave for another six months. They couldn't wait that long. And I thought to myself, you know what? If somebody offers you a ticket on a rocket ship, you don't ask too many questions board. You figure it out board. And so I said to my husband, who's also a lawyer, I said, you know what?
I think you're gonna have to take an unplanned paternity leave for a couple months. And he did to his credit. And he did it to his credit. And, uh, [00:13:00] and I started and, uh, and that was, you know, quite the, uh Right. Quite the experience. But I'm glad that I, you know, had the foresight to, to kind of jump on.
Bart Egnal: Well, and, and we'll, we'll turn to your time at Ewing Morrison the moment.
But, you know, I'm hearing, you know, it wasn't just like you mentioned luck. Okay. So I had a friend who called me and said, these guys were looking or. You know, BlackRock just came along. Yeah. But I'm also hearing you talk about the fact that you were always thinking about what is the next move for me.
Like you said, you know, I, I joined private practice and I thought,
Breann Kelly: yeah,
Bart Egnal: well, I don't know if I see myself as a partner. And then you went to BlackRock and Well, you know, I, I see myself, you know. In a different role, or I wanna learn more, like, talk a bit about what, what's going on behind the scenes that meant when the, the luck of the, the opportunity arrived.
You were ready to take it.
Breann Kelly: Yeah.
Bart Egnal: And what should people listening think be thinking about as well by extension? If they're, if they're in a role right now where they're like, Hmm, I [00:14:00] wonder what questions I should ask myself.
Breann Kelly: Yeah. I mean, I think for me, the through line throughout my entire life has been a real passion for learning and growing.
Mm-hmm. And I've, you know, I remember from the time I was a kid, I was always seeking another challenge and looking to, you know, develop new interests, new hobbies, the more challenges that's. School and so I ne I, I never wanted to be bored or, or stagnant and so I think that is something that always kind of propelled me forward.
Mm-hmm. A little bit as well is just something that was maybe innate in me and also really fostered by my parents who were always really encouraging me to. Challenge myself. And if you're not challenging yourself, then you're not growing. And so I was, that was always kind of in the back of my mind and when I felt that I wasn't being challenged enough.
And you know, you get to a certain point in your career where you're, you've been a place for a number of years and things start to get routine. And I always had this little voice in the back of my head whispering, like, you know, this is, you're, you're gonna get stuck if you, it's too [00:15:00] comfortable. It's too comfortable now.
Yeah. It's too comfortable. You're not gonna learn. You're not gonna grow. And that's. You know, not what you, not gonna make you happy in the end. And so I think that was really the internal force that was pushing forward and, and just really, um, curiosity, really wanting to know what's out there. And I think that's, that's something that is amazing about my current job is that it just feeds my curiosity on a daily basis because it's so multifaceted.
And that's what really appealed to me the most about it is that. I get to kind of cover so much ground that no two days are the same. The business is growing. Mm-hmm. New challenges every day. Mm-hmm. And that really, um, resonated with my kind of personal life philosophy.
Bart Egnal: So when you got to Ewing Morris, then, you know, I, it maybe wasn't immediate curiosity, fulfillment, it sounds like it was a bit more of a shock to the system.
Breann Kelly: Yes.
Bart Egnal: Talk a bit about that culture shock. What change going from, you know, the ocean liner to the speedboat?
Breann Kelly: Yeah, I mean, that's a great analogy. I think for me it was kind of a double whammy because I had [00:16:00] the shock of the change from my personal life perspective and um Right, because you're a mom now and my career perspective.
Yeah, double whammy. 'cause I had just, I had just had my first child I was on, I had been on maternity leave. So even really kind of out of the an off. Environment entirely for like seven months at that time. And, um, I wasn't planning to go back to work early. So there was all of that to contend with. I remember, um, you know, hopefully listeners won't find this, um, too much information, but I was, you know, still breastfeeding at the time.
I had to. Figure out a plan around that. I was in this new office with new people and had to like, be taking breaks to go and pump. And that was, you know, a whole thing. And that kind of highlighted, um, some of the challenges of saying yes for, you know, a working mom mm-hmm. As well is there's a, a real practical reality to it of like, how am I gonna take care of this kid?
How am I gonna do all of these things at once? And so that was a, a lot of balls to juggle. And then, you know, on top of that you're in a new environment. I was suddenly, I had never managed a team before. Sure. And, you know, immediately I had a team of four that, [00:17:00] um, were reporting to me and everyone on my team did different roles.
Hmm. So none of them had a legal or compliance background. They were in accounting, finance, office operations, all of things that I, you know, had vague familiarity with, right? But nothing that I had ever done before myself, and suddenly I'm their manager. Right? And so, you know, for me, that triggered a lot of.
Uh, imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. You know, how am I, how am I going to do this? And how are, how am I going to expect any of these people to listen to me or to, you know, um, do what I say when they know more about what they're talking about than, mm-hmm. Than I do. And so that was a real learning curve for me at first.
I, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out, okay, I have to learn everything that they know. I have to learn their jobs inside and out. It eventually I realized that that was a bit of a fool's errand. Mm-hmm. And I was never gonna become. Certified accountant or someone who had done trade settlement for years, I was never going to, you know, achieve their level of capacity in their [00:18:00] respective roles.
And what I really needed to focus on was where my strengths are in terms of, you know, helping guide them in their career, think through problems. Work through all of your training as a lawyer mm-hmm. Is around problem solving. Being able to look at it some, a complex set of facts and figure out what is the key issue here?
What are the things that we need to do to kind of move this forward? What are the potential outcomes? And that was a skill that I could really help with and lend to them. Right. And so they could bring to me a complex problem and I could, you know, help them, talk them through it. And I realized that's really where I need to focus my energy, rather on learning how to, you know.
Calculate the net asset value of a fund, right? And so, so that was one thing. And then, you know, I think the other main challenge was really the fact that I had been in large environments where I had a team supporting me for many years. And so even at BlackRock, we had a whole legal and compliance team.
We had legal and compliance meetings where, you know, we talked through issues. I had a boss that would sign off on things. Um, I was a team of one [00:19:00] right at Ewing Morris and in term from, you know, legal and compliance perspective especially, and the buck really stopped with me. And so I had to rely on my own judgment and instincts a lot more than I ever did.
And at first that was really scary and I think it highlighted for me how much. Reassurance I had previously sought. Right. And also, you know, how, in many ways that wasn't serving me. Hmm. Because I think something you realize it's, it's true about the work environment. It's also true about anxiety in general is like the more that you seek reassurance mm-hmm.
The, the more 80 roads your confidence mm-hmm. Over time and ability to make decisions on your own. And so that's something I realized. Through having to, you know, kind of an abrupt end to that ability to seek assurance. You couldn't check with anyone. There was nobody to, you know, I mean, I had a great team.
John and Darcy are super smart and they're always great sounding boards, but neither of them are, are lawyers or subject matter experts. Mm-hmm. And so I had to kind of rely on my [00:20:00] own instincts and that, that gave me a lot of confidence that. For the most part, my instincts are sound, obviously lots of, uh, you know, tuition paid over the years and mistakes made, but, um, but that helps you grow too.
Bart Egnal: And that, and that sounds like the, the real growth then was the growth of your own confidence in yourself and this move from, I'm here for what I know. Two, I'm here for my judgment and my leadership and my thinking skills. Yeah. And so that must have been a tremendous, you know, tremendously challenging, but tremendously ultimately formative period for you.
And I think, you know, for people listening who it's a great lesson for when you're gonna take on a promotion, you're gonna switch industries, you're gonna switch companies. It's, it is a fool's err to try and. Master the subject matter expertise that you might not have. I mean, obviously there's a certain minimum standard you need, but
Breann Kelly: For sure.
Yeah.
Bart Egnal: But, um, you really do have to build confidence in yourself, uh, if you're going to thrive, and, and that even the most successful people face that challenge. [00:21:00]
Breann Kelly: Definitely, and I think it's even more true now in the age of ai, right? Mm-hmm. Where, um, I think like you mentioned at the beginning, we're all kind of wondering what is gonna be my place in this new world and what are the skills that are really gonna be important or valued going forward?
And I think it's more and more not that particular subject matter expert, because you've got, um, chat bots that can do legal research, that can do, you know, all of the, all of those. Skills. And so what I think is gonna matter more and more is that those leadership skills, human connection, problem solving, ability to kind of tie it all together and lead people to the right solution, I think is, is increasingly important and relevant.
Bart Egnal: I think so. I think so. You know, you can get CLO to analyze a stock or build a financial model. Yep. But it can't tell you when to pull the trigger or not.
Breann Kelly: Yep, yep.
Bart Egnal: And, and the skills that you described having to develop after joining you Morris. Uh, became put to the test when COVID happened. So yeah. Walk us through what happened for the investment [00:22:00] business in general, and for you and Morris in particular when 2020 came around.
Breann Kelly: Yeah. I mean, I think everybody has that day in mid-March 2020. Mm-hmm. Burned into their brains when they first realized that, uh, they were gonna be going home for a while and not coming back and burn just a couple weeks.
Bart Egnal: Breann, the kids will be back in school in two weeks.
Breann Kelly: Oh, totally. I remember I had some food in the fridge at work.
I think I had some cheese in the fridge and I was thinking, oh, it'll be fine. Like I'll be back in, you know, two weeks and, and we'll get that cheese. And that cheese was gone several months, several months later. Yeah, so I remember, and you know, interesting, I, I can't help but relate to, to, you know, my personal life again, because at the time I had just found out just a couple weeks before COVID that I was pregnant with my second child.
And so, um, you know, and as you know, many moms listening might be able to attest. I started feeling terrible right around the same time. And so, gosh, uh, I remember the last day in the office. We all got sent home and I just remember thinking, thank God [00:23:00] I can rest. Right. And I, you know, I felt like the first couple months of COVID were a fog for me because I was so terribly sick and, uh, exhausted and trying to take Zoom calls from my bed and nobody knew that I was pregnant.
'cause I was in, it was so early, you know, early weeks. And so I had, um, you know, the, the drama of what was going on in the world stage. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, compounded by the drama in my personal life at the same time. And I remember a feeling, like a mix of relief and guilt that, you know, I was so happy that we were working from home when the world was going through this terrible crisis.
So, you know, I, I had this to contend with. In my own right. And then from a business perspective, it was a very tumultuous time for us. You know, our business had never really been tested in that way before. Um, as you might recall the mark. Mm-hmm. The global markets were going through, you know, kind of a crazy time, which honestly I think has set off a strain of volatility that hasn't really seen, it's never in the last six years, but, you know, so, so
Bart Egnal: what was the drawdown in [00:24:00] your, uh, assets in the first month of COVID?
Breann Kelly: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think global markets were down, um, you know, over 20%, right? At that point. And in our, in our flagship fund, we were down, you know. At least that, or, or mm-hmm. If, if not more, like it subsequently rebounded, but it was a really tough, um, performance period. Mm-hmm. Um, for the first little while.
And so we had that to contend with. And then we also just had, you know, clients who were understandably worried about their own financial futures and what's gonna happen to my retirement account. And I had planned things one way and I don't know what's going on in the world and I don't know what's going on with my money.
And so we, you know, we had a lot, um, a lot riding on us at that point. And then. As you know, our business is, uh, you know, primarily driven by the, the fees that we make on the assets that we manage. And so when there's a drawdown of your assets by 25%, that's a direct point. There goes 25% your revenue.
Exactly. And so, you know, at first there was some panic. For sure. And [00:25:00] quickly we kind of jumped into, I, you know, things were a lot better after I got my prescription for morning sickness, sickness, pediatrician. Right. And then I was able to function. Right. And so, um, we started doing, um, a lot of projections.
Mm-hmm. And so for a while we were doing daily projections of. Sensitivity analysis of if the market goes down by this much mm-hmm. How does that impact our revenue? How does that impact our ability to, you know mm-hmm. Kind of keep the lights on. We did a lot of thinking about what resources we really needed now that we had pivoted to working completely mm-hmm.
In a remote environment. So this was a remote environment was new to everybody. Mm-hmm. At that time. Mm-hmm. And so, um. We were thinking about, do we need all of the, um, the infrastructure, all of the people, all of the things that, you know, had been set up, the terminals, everything for this environment.
Mm-hmm.
Breann Kelly: Exactly. So that we did a lot of planning around that. And so I think that really helped us to, um, understand kind of the, the core sensitivities in our business. Mm-hmm. And like also where we could, where we could cut, where we couldn't afford [00:26:00] to cut and what we needed to do to make sure that things were sound.
And so that was. An exercise that we had never done to that extent because we had never needed to before. Um, and I think it's been invaluable and really shaped the way that we've moved going forward. Um, and luckily we were really able to kind of weather that storm. And from that we created a lot of innovation in our business and grew our business in different directions that, um, really helped to hold us in good stead going forward.
And whether a, whether a future storm will hopefully much better, although. Hopefully we won't have
to.
Bart Egnal: And of course it, the COVID, at least on the financial side, ended with a, a good news, you know, the bounce back, the performance and the firm has grown since. Yeah. You, you know, when you think about that, that crucible, and that was five years ago I was thinking today.
Mm-hmm. And five years ago, what would you say when you reflect on your own, you know, growth mindset and how you, you know, in some ways you, before you had jumped, when you had the opportunity, this new, these new opportunities, this was not a new opportunity. This was something that was forced upon you. Yep.[00:27:00]
In, in what way did you, do you feel in retrospect that you grew through this, that you still apply today?
Breann Kelly: Yeah, I mean, I think going through difficult things is always like coming out the other side is really an unparalleled growth experience because you're able to prove to yourself, you know, I can weather that, I can do that and, and I'll, and I'll be fine.
Um, and sort of a exposure therapy to your worst, to your worst fears. Um, and I think also when you go through challenges, and I really, you know, this is a testament to John and Darcia as well, because I think. When people go through challenges, this is a, an example of fixed versus growth mindset as well.
Right? Because I think if you have a fixed mindset, you think, well this is just, this is my lot in life. This is the bad things always happen to me. This is how it's gonna be. You know, whereas growth mindset, you think, how can I get through this and how can I, you know, grow from it mm-hmm. And change. And so I think what we were really leaned into is, you know, how can we diversify our business so that, you know, if this ever [00:28:00] happens again or if you know.
So that we've got more ballast in the event of any market turmoil, and so that we're able to just, you know, have more lines of revenue, more things to offer our clients, and that from there is where we really came up with the idea of the, the SPV business that we launched in back in 2020 and is become a big part of our business going forward.
And so the genesis of that really was around the fact that,
Bart Egnal: and for over, and for people listening. Yeah. Breann, can you just explain what an S. Pb a special purpose vehicle is?
Breann Kelly: Yes.
Bart Egnal: And, and why you came up with it.
Breann Kelly: For sure. So, um, our investment philosophy historically was that we took fairly concentrated positions in a small number of mostly small cap Canadian and US stocks.
Mm-hmm. And so we had to have, you know, success with that over the years. And one of the things we did that really led to a lot of success was to. Take a more engaged approach with the companies that we invested in. So sometimes this would mean if we saw [00:29:00] something that the company was doing that we thought should be done differently.
Taking a more active role in, you know, speaking to management, speaking to the board of directors and trying to add, be a change agent and advocate for change. And this led us to having, uh, seats on boards of directors of. At that time, I think it was almost a dozen mm-hmm. Public companies in Canada and the us and so that had been a really successful strategy for us and something that was unique in the market because there aren't a, given the way that the, uh, Canadian market operates and how friendly and insular most Canadians are, there aren't a lot of.
People who are, you know mm-hmm. Kind of willing to ruffle feathers and kind of get in there. And so that was really a, a strength of ours that we had established over the years. And so we thought maybe we could take this and build it into something bigger and more of a franchise. And so we're limited within our funds and the size of a position that we could take in an issuer.
But we thought, you know, if we launched us. Targeted vehicle. Mm-hmm. Just for this, we can, you know, lock up capital for a little bit [00:30:00] longer, take a more concentrated position, and really, you know, advocate for change in a particular company where we see the ability to, you know, unlock value for our clients and for other shareholders.
And so the first one was born in 2020. It was, uh, born out of a COVID, mispricing of a, um, a grocery anchored REIT in the United States. It's called Cedar Realty Trust. And we took a, you know, we raised money from clients, took a sizable position, Darcy Morris got a seat on the board of directors and had, uh, you know, an amazing outcome for clients there that sold, the company almost tripled the money for clients within a year and a half.
And, uh, from there, you know, a new franchise was born. Hmm. And, uh, we uncovered a real market demand for this. Like the, you know, we kind of make the, make a little bit of a, a joke internally about. People have kind of a different wallet for, for deals and for things that are unique investment opportunities.
It's kind of like, uh, your regular stomach and then your dessert stomach. Right. You know, there's always, always room. There's always, there's always room Exactly. For [00:31:00] dessert. And so similarly, like if you, if you see a time limited opportunity, I think that that's something that's really interesting to a lot of clients and a lot of people in general.
And so we were able to kind of build that franchise and to. Expand and diversify our business from there. And I think that that experience gave us a lot of confidence and um, really led to us doing our. Our next acquisition and pivoting into the wealth management space a couple years later, um, that's grown the firm even further.
Bart Egnal: And that's when you brought Entine in and James there. Yeah. And for those listening who don't kinda spend a ton of time in the asset management business, you know, there's, there's asset managers who invest capital, you know, buy stocks or, or, or bonds or other, and then there's wealth managers who manage your money and may not do the investing themselves.
And you've kind of combined the two in the firm. That's right. Um,
Breann Kelly: that's right.
Bart Egnal: Mm-hmm. So what led you to do that? Yeah,
Breann Kelly: well, you know, we'd been thinking kind of similar to what we were thinking on the SPVs. We, we [00:32:00] realized that we were offering sort of a limited subset of services mm-hmm. To our clients.
And so, you know, a lot of clients would come to us and we'll say, we'll manage this sleeve of your capital in our, in our small cap fund. Or, you know, you might allocate some of your money to our s. PV and we realized there was a lot more that we could be doing mm-hmm. For our clients in general. And we had been, we had long wind proponents of the, the endowment model of investing.
Um, we've, um, a few people at the firm, so John Ewing, Darcy and I have all sat on investment committees of, um, larger charitable and educational institutions. And we'd really looked a lot at, uh, at the Yale endowment model, which. Which espouse the principle of, you know, essentially managing a lot of your money in a passive capacity.
So through ETFs, um, and allocating certain of it to more, you know, torkey alternative investments. And so we thought, you know, that's something that we think would be right for a lot of our clients where we could help them with this. This kind of endowment model strategy, if we had the capacity to do war, full [00:33:00] scale wealth management.
And so we had an existing relationship with a firm called Alvin Tie and Investment Council, and they were interested in, um, you know, building their business as well. And we thought if we could combine. Their power of being full scale wealth management. So they, they had a full investment counseling business where you'd meet with ine, they do a financial plan for you, figure out, uh, investment allocation, help you figure out, manage a whole financial future, retirement.
Um, and if we could pair that with our ability to do these. Kind of alternative investments, then we could really, um, you know, offer something amazing to our clients. And so that's what, um, that's what led us to explore that, um, acquisition. And that was almost two years ago now. And it's been ex like extremely value creative to both to our business and to our clients in general.
We've had a lot of appetite from our existing clients, um, to expand into wealth. As well from Amazon's existing clients to learn more about our, our alternative funds. So it's been a really [00:34:00] symbiotic relationship.
Bart Egnal: You know, it strikes me when you, when you tell that story and you talk about, you know, how much even Morris has grown.
Since 2020. Um, you know, both in terms of assets, but also just in terms of the nature of the business. It's evolved. It, it's kind of, you know, brings full circle your story, right. You know? Mm-hmm. It's almost like, like you and Morris, the firm has a growth mindset. We're having a fixed mindset, right? Yeah.
It's saying, look, we are not just one thing. We can grow, we can evolve. We're willing to be, you know, bold, willing to, you know, maybe go through a little imposter syndrome to come out the other side, and so. It seems kind of fitting that you're, that you're the COO at Ewing Morris, because it really has embodied that same attitude.
Would you say that that's fair, fair, uh, comparison?
Breann Kelly: Definitely. And I think it's really just, um, proven of the thesis that I have when I met John and Darcy originally, and when I was first introduced to you and Morris that this was the kind of place that, you know, I could grow with. Mm-hmm. And that my colleagues would also have that same growth mindset.
And I think you see a lot of, um. [00:35:00] You know, we have a, we have a, a, a term that they use in the industry as, uh, pale, male, and stale. So there's a lot of firms that are, that are more pale, male and stale than, uh, and, and so I wasn't really looking for something like that. I was looking for a firm that I could work with, grow with and, you know, yeah.
Embody that growth mindset. And I think I really found it at Youi more.
Bart Egnal: So Brianna, I really appreciate you coming on sharing your story. I know a lot of people listening, particularly at this time as we talked about, as we enter the age of AI and, you know, the kind of foundations of, uh, career paths are changing will appreciate what you've shared.
I, I wonder, you know, they might ask you, alright, what's your advice to me? You know, I'm living in this world, this unpredictable world. Uh, h how can I have a growth mindset? When, you know, the foundations of work are so shaky, what, what advice would you have for them?
Breann Kelly: Yeah, I mean, I think my biggest advice is, is, is really something small, which is challenge yourself to always do hard things.
And [00:36:00] if from your personal life, um, you know, something, I'm, I'm working on this, we're working on this at home a lot too, because I'm really trying to foster the idea of a growth mindset with my kids. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's. You know, some days it goes better than others, but one thing I've been doing is, uh, sounds
Bart Egnal: familiar to meet
Breann Kelly: Yeah.
Started taking tennis lessons because I've always wanted to take tennis lessons and, uh, you know, at 40 it's, uh, it's, it's a bit humbling, but I feel like, you know, that for me, that's a, that's a new challenge and it's something hard. And so if you just always find an opportunity to do something hard, and I think that, um, if there's anything that you're avoiding doing, that's a good sign, that it's a hard thing that you should be leaning into.
Mm-hmm. So I think if you pr, the more you practice doing hard things, the better you get at, you know, building that confidence. I love it. So always finding ways to challenge yourself and e every day, starting in your personal life and moving into your career.
Bart Egnal: I love that and I love that you can apply it outside of, outside of work.
Well, Brian, you, you've done a lot. You've done a hard thing today. You've come on your first podcast. Hopefully it wasn't hard. The exposure therapy has been worth it. [00:37:00] And, uh, yes, it's been a great conversation. I appreciate it.
Breann Kelly: It's been great. Thank you. Work.
Bart Egnal: Thank you.
I hope you enjoyed that episode of the Inspire Podcast and the conversation that I had, uh, with our guests. And hopefully you left with some really practical, tangible tools and tips that you can use to be more consistently inspirational. If you're enjoying the pod, I'll ask. You a favor, please rate and review it.
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Thanks so much for listening. Go forth and [00:38:00] inspire.