Exciting news: The Humphrey Group has been acquired by Humance!
In this special episode of The Inspire Podcast, Bart Egnal speaks with Bernard Letendre, Managing Partner, Ontario and Western Canada at Humance, about the story behind this decision and the journey that led him there.
Bernard shares his remarkable career path from practicing law to leading major divisions in Canada’s financial services industry, to joining Humance and becoming the architect behind its acquisition of The Humphrey Group. Along the way, he reflects on lessons learned about taking risks, creating opportunities rather than waiting for them, and pursuing growth with purpose. He also draws powerful parallels between leadership and his lifelong practice of judo, where discipline, humility, and mutual benefit are essential to success.
Bart and Bernard close with an inside look at how the merger came to be after a year of conversation and a shared vision for growth, and how it will set both organizations up to continue serving their clients in existing and new ways.
Whether you’re navigating your own career transitions or leading through change, this conversation offers powerful insights on creating your own opportunities, embracing non-linear growth, and finding strength in partnership.
00:14 Show intro
00:48 Welcoming Bernard
01:14 Special announcement
02:05 "Humance" meaning
02:29 Judo and its importance
04:40 How Bernard began his career
05:01 Law and the law of electronic surveillance
05:34 Wife: "law made you less fun to be around"
06:47 Joined IG
07:06 Taking a 100% commission job
07:53 Making cold-calls to the bar phonebook
08:35 Finding opportunities in the new job
08:40 Officer training in the military
09:05 Good at management
10:19 Changing career paths regularly
10:36 Switching to Standard Life
11:21 Standard life
12:05 2009 Financial crisis - lost job
12:14 Landing at Manulife
12:36 Should you take a step down in your career?
13:01 Building a biz plan for private wealth at Manulife
13:44 Manulife tapped him to run his business plan
14:54 Advice for people who are ambitious with their careers
15:08 Don't wait for opportunity, come up with ways of creating value
15:36 Congrats, you have employment now figure out your job
16:50 How the Pandemic transformed his life
17:53 cert in organizational coaching
20:59 Why he made the leap to Humance
22:38 Long-term thinking
22:45 Doing is big "act" before it was too late
24:16 Advice: A career does not have to be linear
25:13 Not having a rigid mind
25:36 The final act: Humance
27:05 His Biz plan for expanding Humance outside the Quebec market
28:48 How Bernard reached out to Bart
31:17 Mutual benefit in Judo
33:41 Thank yous and wrap up
34:02 Outro
Bernard Letendre: My, my view has always been, don't wait for somebody to offer you something. Come up with ways of creating value.
Bart Egnal: Welcome to the Inspire Podcast, where we examine what it takes to intentionally inspire. I'm your host, Bart Egnal president and CEO of the Humphrey Group, and if you've ever asked yourself, how can you develop an authentic leadership presence, or how can you tell stories that have people hanging off every word. Then this podcast is for you, and it's not just for executives. This is a podcast for anyone who wants to influence and inspire others in their work, but also in their life.
My guest on today's episode of the Inspire Podcast is Bernard Letendre, and Bernard is managing partner at Humance focused on Ontario and Western Canada. He joins me from Toronto. Bernard, welcome to the podcast.
Bernard Letendre: Hey, Bart. Happy to be here.
Bart Egnal: Pleasure to have you here. This is a bit of a unique and special episode because it really is not just you and I coming together to do this podcast, but really the celebration of our organizations coming together.
It has been announced the Humphrey Group. And my other company, the Niagara Institute, are very proud to join Humance, to create a combined firm that is really a national entity of almost 200 people. So I'm really excited to have you here. We won't talk too much about that, but I think it just bears saying that a momentous occasion.
Bernard Letendre: Yes. It's very exciting and I agree with you. It's a momentous occasion.
Bart Egnal: Yeah. And it's a momentous occasion that has deep history, and I think we'll go way back and, look what we are not gonna talk so much about why we came together, but we're going spend a lot of time talking about your journey and what led you into, my orbit.
Because you've had a pretty amazing career and I think, for people listening. Humans really is the fusion of two words, human and performance. And the business is really driven by helping people in organizations perform better, which is something that, that resonated with me.
And I think your story and your journey is an epitome of that and holds some important lessons for people listening for their own career journeys and their own ability to perform. I think before we go any further into your career journey and talking about leadership, I think we have to get to the dark heart.
You are leadership master by day. Assassin or by night No judo master you. And all kidding aside you're an incredibly accomplished judo professional. So tell us a bit about that. We could do a whole episode on that, but I think we have to start there.
Bernard Letendre: Yes. First, but I'll say that Judo, that people who do judo are very nice people.
And having said that, judo is a very effective martial art and yeah, you can definitely use it if you need it.
Bart Egnal: For people listening, you're a teacher in judo. Tell us exactly the role that Judo plays in your life and the role that you play in judo.
Bernard Letendre: So I've been practicing judo for 45 years.
I started when I was 11. I learned from one of the greatest teachers since Abla in Montreal. He passed away just a few months ago. He was a ninth degree black belt. Those are very few and far between.
Bart Egnal: Is that the highest degree?
Bernard Letendre: There's 10. 10 but that is extremely rare. So he was a ninth degree black belt, and I had really the privilege of learning from him for decades.
And long and short, I competed for a couple of decades and about 20 years ago. I decided that I wanted to teach and I started teaching when my kids started taking judo. So I became one of the assistant instructors for the children's classes, and then one thing led to another, and when I moved here to Toronto.
I joined the University of Toronto Juda Club and quickly I started teaching there. And now I'm the technical director of the University of Toronto Juda Club, and it's a big part of my life. Like I am, I'm on the mats three times a week, nine hours a week on average. Big part of my life.
Bart Egnal: And it's gonna be a through line for our conversation today. I'm glad we glad we could start with that. So let's wind this way back to when you started your career. So tell me where it started. 'cause I know it, it's didn't start in human performance. It started in law.
Bernard Letendre: I am a lawyer by background and I did both a bachelor of laws and also a master's in law.
Did my master's in electronic surveillance section eight of the chart of rights and freedoms. And right after I finished my master's, I joined the Federal Department of Justice as an icing student and was called to the bar in October of 93. So it's gonna be 32 years. Wow. It's 32 years now.
Bart Egnal: Wow. Okay. And so you thought law was gonna be it for you, right? Yeah, but it, I think it was your wife who said you law made you less fun to be around. And so tell me what happened there.
Bernard Letendre: It’s interesting. So law was fascinating. So intellectually I really loved it. And in fact, like I was pretty invested in I co-authored a legal textbook before I was 25. Wow. On, on, on rules of evidence and procedure in criminal trials. So intellectually, I really liked it. Practicing law for the Department of Justice turned out not to be for me. And as you mentioned,
Bart Egnal: and why not? Why what was
Bernard Letendre: just, it wasn't the right fit.
Like I felt that the right fit. Like I felt that the work was quite solitary. I spent a lot of time alone in an office and I'm more gregarious than that. For an introvert. So yeah I wasn't thriving in that role and my wife and I were newly married and she's the one who pointed out that I was less fun to be around, but that I didn't seem to really be happy in that role.
And for me, that was, the little push they needed to jump to something else. And I saw an ad in the paper back then. There were job ads and papers, right? People read newspapers. People posted that sense of them. Yeah. So I saw an ad in the paper for investors group. Was hiring for financial advisors mutual mutual fund reps, and I applied and I joined ig.
I didn't really realize, but at that time that there was no salary. So you failed to mention that in the ad? Yeah, no it was one of those jobs where you were 100% on commissions. Oh, wow. And if you didn't sell week one, you didn't basically get paid the week after.
Bart Egnal: So had you left, was there a moment where this dawned on you where you, I left this government cushy job, and now you went home and said, to your wife, there's nothing guaranteed here.
Bernard Letendre: No. You know what? When I decide to do something, I go all in. And I had made that choice, like by the time I signed, I knew. Okay. I knew that the challenge would be.
To basically grow my own client base to, build my book. And I tenaciously went after that. And by the way, I did it I had the Quebec bar phone book with 16,000 names. Oh gosh. And I, I started making cold calls in the Quebec bar phone book. That's how I started building my block of business almost three years ago.
Bart Egnal: That's amazing. So you took this leap, and I know this, we're gonna come back to this theme. If you know you. Had this drive to create this next role. But it didn't stop there. I thought it was fascinating that, you went this job, but then you saw another opportunity within it.
Tell me about that.
Bernard Letendre: What I haven't mentioned is that I also did my officer training in the Canadian Armed Forces. Okay.
Bart Egnal: Just like on the side, you'd have a little spare time.
Bernard Letendre: I enrolled believe it or not, before I was 18. I was a few months short, so my mom had to sign so that I could enroll.
And I did officer training and one of the things I discovered when I was in the armed forces was that I was actually good at management. Administration, stuff like that. So back to our story, my goal when I joined IG was always to, at some point get to head office. And become, management.
So they invited us something like a year and a half into the role to go to Winnipeg for what they called the advanced school. And it was like a few days. I can't remember how long. I think maybe it was a week. And while I was in Winnipeg, I approached the VP of training and development and I said, would you have somebody for me at head office?
And lo and behold, a few months later, the phone rang. And I got the opportunity to move to Winnipeg in February of 95 with my wife, seven months pregnant.
Bart Egnal: Oh my gosh.
Bernard Letendre: And joined IG as an assistant manager of training. That was my first ever head office role.
Bart Egnal: And I know if we jump ahead, you kept in your career, you kept moving.
I think it's really fascinating. You, we think often historically that, 30 years ago you would just join a company and stay for life but your career path took you from that. To, in l and d then ultimately becoming a director and building training. And then you didn't even stop within ig you shifted ultimately to Manulife, te tell me about the move there and what it ultimately took you to, 'cause I know you, you continued to climb the lather there.
Bernard Letendre: Yeah, there, there were a few steps, in between Bart, so from Winnipeg ig, at some point in 98, I got the opportunity to become director of sales for Quebec.
So that was our ticket back to Montreal in 98 and. It became evident at some point that if I wanted to continue to progress at some point we'd have to go back to Winnipeg. And, in agreement with my wife, we didn't wanna do that. So we decided to I took an opportunity I was headhunted a way to standard life.
Okay. And standard life. I was there and I got. The opportunity basically to relaunch their mutual fund company in 2000 and built it up. So I was at Standard Life for about four and a half years, a bit short of five, and then I was headhunted away to BMO. Back then it was called BMO Private Banking or Harris Private Banking.
I had never done that flying far in the past. Yeah. So I'd never done that. And because I was going to oversee portfolio managers and trust officers and private bankers. So I took the leap and I went to BMO and then in February of 2009, right during, the financial crisis was not over, I lost my job.
So I ended up looking and a few months later I landed at Manulife. So I'd been a VP at BMO, but I took an a VP job at Manulife. And I thought I'm just gonna get back in the game.
Bart Egnal: Yeah. And was that hard? I think a lot of people listening, particularly in this time and we're talking, about how to think about managing your career and progressing.
A lot of people say, oh, I shouldn't take a step down unless it's to a much larger organization. But I wouldn't think man life would be much larger than BMO. So how did you think about that move and how should people listening think about that?
Bernard Letendre: I thought, I don't wanna stay home. I wanna get back in the game.
And I believe that if I joined a good company I would find my way. And I took that job and I did it to the best of my ability. But in my spare time, I started working with a couple people on a business plan to create a private wealth business for Manulife. It didn't have one.
Bart Egnal: And you just decided to do this, like you just came up with this idea.
Bernard Letendre: Yeah, me and a couple guys, and we created that plan and I knew how to build one because I'd run a private wealth business right at BMO, so I knew how to put one together. Manulife had the pieces and that's it. On June 23rd, 2011, the day before Sanctional Batiste in Montreal, because we're living in Montreal back then my EVP gave me a call and said if you want it, it's yours.
Bart Egnal: This, and that's this plan that you'd created? Yeah. You're gonna, we're gonna tap you to run it.
Bernard Letendre: Yeah. If you wanna build it, you're, come to Toronto and build it. And that's how in February not in February, in, in August, like a month and a half later. My wife myself and our three kids moved to Toronto.
Wow. That's how it happened.
Bart Egnal: And then ultimately you stayed with Manulife. You ultimately rose to becoming CEO of Manulife Investment Management. And we'll come back to to what led you to, led you away from Manulife to humans ultimately. But, I think it's a pretty amazing story because if I, when I look at the through line, routinely you were in a job or organization that, by all measures, you could stay with.
Whether it's the Federal Government Department of Justice, ia early days at Manulife, and you seem to continually think about the next job and kind of chase it, pitch it, like whatever combo, it took what's the lesson? When you look at. Your career and we'll get to the most recent move.
What advice would you have for people listening who are ambitious about how to create that next job?
Bernard Letendre: My, my view has always been, don't wait for somebody to offer you something. Come up with ways of creating value. And Bart I didn't mention it earlier, but one of the most pivotal moments in my career was, couple of weeks after joining head office for, ig, an EVP. His name was Rob Hane. He came to sit in my cubicle. Okay. He said, Bernard, congratulations. You have employment now. You now you need to figure out what your job will be. That blew my mind. But because here was an EVP, like probably the number two guy at the company telling me that. I could actually create my own job.
Like it was my job to figure out how I could create value for the organization. And I did that, wrote a plan. Yeah. And eventually it got me a significant promotion. Wow. And a new job. So this thing of kind of seizing the opportunity not waiting. Yeah. I've done that throughout my entire career.
Bart Egnal: I love it. And I love, the fact that you invest, I think it's a great lesson for people listening. Like you invested time and energy in. Just the generation of ideas that could bring value, whether it was that moment with that EVP, whether it was the work that you did to create a planet man your life with no kind of guarantee that it would amount to anything.
Yep. And I think that's a really refreshing attitude. I think about organizations look for people with a passion and energy who can also bring an idea forward. And obviously it's, it paid off in spades. So take us into to what happened in the pandemic. I think it was so transformative for so many people.
You went into it. Yeah. You're passionate about judo, you're running this huge global business at Manulife, and then it all changed. So what happened?
Bernard Letendre: The pandemic was difficult for a lot of people in my case, the most difficult thing I think was that we were shut out of the dojo for a full two years.
We, we didn't know that it would be two years. But it ended up being, a full two years. And for me, that was not just mere disruption because, the club is like a second family. The physical activity, the importance of physical activity part, but it keeps you, happy and balanced and fit and all these things.
So I, I basically lost that during the pandemic and I tried to recycle myself into running and stuff like that. It was I did it, but, not with a lot of joy. Not the same, right? Not the same thing. During the pandemic, I decided to register for the certificate in organizational coaching at UBC.
I needed to do something something that would, be, fulfilling and exciting. And I thought this program looks really interesting. And why did I pick coaching? I picked coaching because as a leader. Throughout my career, I always thought of myself as a coach-like leader, right?
Not command and control, not top down, this is what you shall do, but more like how can I help you be the best that you can be in your role? So people in teams, right? So I picked that program because it had an organizational component, right? It wasn't just like individual coaching, but it was also team or.
Group coaching. So long and short I registered in that program and halfway through the program in May of that year we had to write, our mid program essay. And I wrote, I'm gonna do this full-time eventually.
Bart Egnal: And meanwhile you were running. Manulife Investment Management was how big, how large a global organization?
Bernard Letendre: I'd been running the Canadian Wealth and Asset Management business, which was our securities dealer, our institutional business, our retirement business and our retail business. Okay. So it was a very large business, a couple of hundred billion in a UMA. But by the time.
Know these incidents, these events had come around. I was actually in the global head of strategy and product role. Okay. That was a global role. I had in people in 14 countries in Asia and in Europe and North America and whatnot, so I was in that role. It was a big role demanding.
And yeah, for sure. Long and short. Like I thought this coaching thing, I could see myself do that. So I had picked the program because I wanted to learn a way of doing coaching. Like I'd been doing it right without. Having been trained
Bart Egnal: have ad hoc or self-taught. Yeah. Yeah,
Bernard Letendre: exactly.
But I wanted to know to learn how to do it well, and I actually wrote that in my admission essay. I want to do this because I want to learn how to do it well. Okay. And I loved it. A coaching program forces you to do a lot of introspection. And in that program, I thought, yep. I could do this one day.
And I thought that my time horizon was probably like, five years or stuff like that. Yeah. But I, I started, making a few calls, to people, to organizations to see what. Might that look like one day, if I wanted to do coaching and I came across, the people at humans where I am now, and one thing led to another, and it wasn't five years.
I actually joined on October 7th, 2022, which is, three years ago. The reason why I made the leap was the values alignment.
Bart Egnal: And had you hired humans before? Had you worked with them?
Bernard Letendre: No. Wow. No. No. I knew one of the partners from the previous life because he was well known in Montreal and it, and he's the one that I reached out to.
So we had met. But I, I didn't really know much more than that. And what really did it was finding, in my partners now people that I really shared a lot of values with, and I believed in the mission of the firm, which is really to help organizations, be better, do better, buy.
Getting the best out of people and teams and culture and all that. I really I bought into the mission, right? The values and the people.
Bart Egnal: It's pretty amazing story, because I would say. It's rare in my experience from working with executives through my whole career, for an executive at that stage to say, I'm just gonna leave being an executive behind with all, all that it entails positive and negative and go into such a completely different type of work.
It's adjacent, obviously you're working with people, but the nature of it. Is different, what gave you the confidence in your ability to take that leap and reinvent yourself yet again?
Bernard Letendre: I think it was really a matter of very long term thinking. So I was 51 back then.
When I started thinking about this and I thought, you know what, maybe I've got another five years, six years in the corporate world, and then, I'm gonna be 57, 58, and at that age, you don't have time for one. Big act. Like I thought, like I, I don't want to be 60 and try to do something for two or three years and then retire. I wanna have some runway. To do something meaningful. And I thought, okay, if I do something at 52, I have another 13, 15 years, maybe 20 years, like that is a whole new career. Like you, you have an opportunity to really do something. And that's it. Like for me, like it was, I am going to, make a change and I'm gonna have this other, this next chapter.
Bart Egnal: This other career. Yeah. I think that's a great way of looking at it, this long-term thinking. And I think a lot of people get caught up in the. This is what I have to, this is this year or this month. Yeah. If you look at your career, so the first lesson that you've shared is really that you can create the next job.
If you take the energy, the passion, and show ways that you can bring value or, see opportunities, you can create the next job. What's, what would you say the second lesson for people listening would be?
Bernard Letendre: I'm not sure it's a lesson, but it's something that I've thought about. Often a career is not, doesn't have to be linear.
Okay. A lot of people think that their career has to be linear. You get a job and then you get a promotion and you keep you're on that track and you keep going on that track, and the objective is to go up, for me I never thought it as being linear. I think of it more water flowing and water will flow where there's opportunities and sometimes, because there's an obstacle here, it's gonna flow left and maybe another opportunity will come up and it's gonna flow, right?
And this flexibility and I think, being open-minded to go with opportunities. You create opportunities, but part of it is, your mindset. It's being open to the possibilities. So it's about, I think not having a rigid mind, but having a mind that is open to possibilities, including possibilities that are off, the path you're on.
Bart Egnal: Yeah, I think that's, that really resonates. I think there's a. There's this desire sometimes for a predictable narrative, a linear narrative, as you pointed out in careers. Okay. So let's go the to the final act. So you've joined humans. Yeah. You've left Manulife behind. Yeah. And you actually, I think we should say, you, you not only joined as a employee you bought equity in the firm.
Correct. You believed so much in what it was doing. And now you start what were you brought in to do and how did you go about doing it?
Bernard Letendre: A few things. So initially I approached the organization about doing coaching. That makes perfect sense. But one of my partners LA Reed said, you know what, Bernard, with your background, I tell you right now, you're gonna do.
Not just coaching, right? You're gonna do, transformation work, you're gonna do leadership development, you're gonna do a bunch of stuff. He turned out to be right. Because as I started growing my practice and, helping to build the my region, that's how things happened.
So he predicted it, right? But. My job was basically to help the organization grow our business outside of Quebec. ENS is not a new organization. As bright. We've been around for 45 years. We were founded originally as an IO psychology firm. Industrial and organizational psychology.
And to this day, we have a lot of folks on the team with their PhDs in psychology and whatnot. So that is, core business. We do assessments, we help, organizations with their talent assessments and selection and all that. So it's a, it's an older organization that eventually grew into leadership and team development and strategy and transformation and coaching.
So it's quite diversified now. The organization when I joined was still very much centered and anchored on the Quebec market, right? Where we're a significant player. And I spent the biggest part of my career outside of Quebec in the rest of Canada. And the mission I was given was.
Bernard to help us build humans outside of Quebec. And when I came on board three years ago, Bart, like at this time, three years ago. Wow. I was doing a deep dive on the business and writing my business plan. For what I wanted to accomplish. It was an ambitious plan. It is why not be ambitious?
Why not? Yeah. Why not? You've gotta be ambitious, right? You've gotta believe in something. So it was an ambitious plan, and the plan called for combination of organic growth, but also acquisitions. And basically I wrote the plan, presented it to my partners in December of 2022. Took a couple of meetings, I got the green light, and that's what I've been doing ever since.
And the conversation that you and I had when we first met almost a year ago, right? Like it, it is very much in the vein of that plan and that ambition.
Bart Egnal: Yeah. I remember getting this message on LinkedIn a year ago from you and said, you don't know me, but would you be open to having I'm new to this industry.
I think you said, would you be open to having a conversation? Yeah. The ultimate sneaky sneaky m and a conversation. But no we got together, I think, we, yeah, as I have a great network of fellow owners and practitioners in the space and I just love, sharing insights about growth in the business.
And I haven't known about humans, but I was excited to hear about your ambition. And I think, over time we just kept having these dynamic conversations about what we could do together. And I think also the values. As you said that you have, and even like you mentioned assessment, going through the assessment myself, you, you see the quality of it.
It was it was intense but valuable
Bernard Letendre: yeah.
Bart Egnal: Yeah. No, I think it's I share the ambition, I've always been motivated by growth and ambition and driving forward and increasing the impact. So I'm just super excited about what we can do together as a firm. Yeah. And I think, you, there's a phrase, and maybe I'll share the last lesson as we come through this story, there was a phrase that you shared, which really resonated with me, which is I think at the heart of why we're doing this, which is that, if you wanna go fast, go alone.
If you wanna go far, go together. Yeah. And when I started my career, I joined the firm, my mom built, and it was me and her, and she created this incredible. Practice. And I said to her, it was back in my early twenties, I'm in, mid forties now. I said, look mom, I think we've got something here.
We should bring people in and grow it. And she supported that. And ultimately I found exactly what you said. But there comes a point where. It's quicker to do that by joining forces, and to get access to capabilities and relationships and talent that you can't cultivate otherwise. And so I'm just super excited to be on this next journey and not just bring the Humphrey Group and Niagara on board, but also to join the executive committee and help chart the future.
So yeah, I'm thrilled to be joining the organization, to be working more closely with you.
Bernard Letendre: Yeah. And we're so thrilled also Bart to have you join us. Like that that saying is is quite powerful. This thing about if you wanna go far, go together and, I'll bring in one more idea, like the, which is really core to judo and I mentioned earlier the philosophy of judo.
One of the two core principles of judo is mutual benefit. Really this idea is that.
Bart Egnal: that, how does that work in like in combat?
Bernard Letendre: The way it works is the person that you are sparring with, okay? The person that you're fighting is not your enemy. It is the person with without whom you could not grow.
Interesting, right? You can only grow if you have partners, right? This is a fighting art. So we, we fight, we spar. Like for years and years. I fought my brother in tournaments. And yet I love my brother, right? Like not an enemy. So this idea that the fight, the opposition is there for growth and that the other person is actually a friend.
The person that helps you grow is a friend. So you look. Beneath the surface of what you see when you observe that fight and you understand that person is important to you. And this idea of relationships being mutually beneficial, right? It's been hard coded in me over the past 45 years.
It, it is a core tenet and this is definitely something that, you know I think. Our two firms coming together. I agree is gonna be in that spirit, it's gonna be in that spirit of, being mutually beneficial and I might say incredibly beneficial to our clients.
Totally. This is something that will allow us to do more to help our clients and and that in itself would make it worthwhile.
Bart Egnal: I agree. For so many years and this being in this business for 25 years, I'm asked by our clients to offer things and do things and create solutions that are just not within our capabilities.
And, historically that's what we've said, and we've said, look, this is not us, and we'll refer you to someone. And now the potential to, to tap into the capabilities of team of 150 talented professionals is very exciting. Yes. I love it. And one I appreciate you coming on the podcast and I think one, one area that our clients are gonna benefit is I'm gonna feature more people from humans on the pod because there's some incredible talent you included, and I think, we'll have some neat conversations.
But it's an exciting start to a new chapter. I've been personally driven by the desire for growth and this is something I'm very excited to do. So Bernard, thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you for sharing your story, and thank you, most of all for the trust to to bring my firms into the larger family.
Bernard Letendre: Thank you, Brad and thank you for having me on the podcast. Really enjoyed it.
Bart Egnal: Thanks so much.
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