How to Become a People-Centric Leader with Vanessa Bragg

Vanessa shares the story of her own career transformation and the profound impact that people-focused leadership has had on her growth. She unpacks what it means to be a people-centric leader, why this mindset is more essential than ever, and how you can begin to model this approach in your own leadership.

From shifting your style from telling to coaching, to showing up with authentic presence and using language that draws out the best in others, Vanessa offers both heartfelt insights and practical strategies. Her stories, examples, and actionable tools will inspire you to connect more deeply with your team, foster meaningful engagement, and drive results through human-centered leadership.

Show Notes

00:25 Show intro
00:59 Introducing Vanessa Bragg
01:14 Bart runs through Vanessa's background
01:55 Introducing people-centric leadership
02:36 How Vanessa started her career
03:58 Most rapid growth with that leader 
04:58 She wasn't a problem solver, she always asked me what I recommended 
05:45 How did that people-centricity shape your own philosophy?
06:39 She never was the answer person 
08:17 What are the challenges with people-centred approach
09:52 Even though I'm a coach I have my eye on strategy 
10:33 Top-down vs people-centric leadership differences
11:00 Leaders who are lower in self-awareness are harder to shift
12:45 How much does the org affect the culture?
13:04 It has to come from the top
13:36 Buy-in from execs freed up the other leaders
14:24 In all the orgs I worked in the CSuite makes a huge difference to culture 
15:27 How can leaders be present?
16:55 Connection before content
18:19 Use the language of leadership
21:06 Example of a leader who was using the wrong language
22:17 She wasn't an unkind person 
23:21 Raise that self-awareness 
23:39 Intent and impact
24:13 Being people-focused does not mean losing track of business goals
24:42 What does it mean to "Communicate like a Coach"?
30:09 Where can people find out more?
30:47 Outro

Show Transcript

Vanessa Bragg: Being people focused does not mean that you not wanting to keep your eye on strategy and the goals and what the organization needs to achieve. You're inspiring, embracing people, holding them capable, working with their talents to get those things. You get your ROI if you treat people with respect. You collaborate with them, and you bring the best out of them.

Bart Egnal: Welcome to the Inspire Podcast, where we examine what it takes to intentionally inspire. I'm your host, Bart Egnal, president and CEO of the Humphrey Group. And if you've ever asked yourself how can you develop an authentic leadership presence or how can you tell stories that have people hanging off every word, well, then this podcast is for you. And it's not just for executives. This is a podcast for anyone who wants to influence and inspire others in their work, but also in their life.

Bart Egnal: So my guest on today's episode of the Inspire podcast is Vanessa Bragg, and Vanessa is joining me from Vancouver. Vanessa, welcome to the podcast.

Vanessa Bragg: Thank you so much, Bart, for having me. I really appreciate the time that we're going to have together.

Bart Egnal: I'm glad to have you. You run, you've opened recently a practice. you left the corporate world. You've launched Vanessa Bragg Coaching consulting. And I know you do coaching, obviously in the leadership development space. You facilitate, you serve as a fractional HR executive. And of course, what brought us into contact, you went from being a past client to being a member of the Humphrey Group team. So welcome, welcome. With these many auspices and in talking about, you know, what we would talk about in the pod, we went through the really fascinating career you've had.

I know you've spent time in so many different industries and really that the kind of central thread which reign through all of them is what you call people centric leadership.

Vanessa Bragg: Exactly.

Bart Egnal: And this philosophy, and I think, you know, what people listen can really benefit from is an understanding of what that people centric leadership is and how to intentionally nurture it and develop it in others and in yourself. Because this is a time when people are looking for leadership and they're looking for particularly human, connected leadership in the world that we're in today, in the world that AI is transforming. So that's. That's what I wanted to have you on the podcast to talk about. I was inspired. But maybe we. Before we talk people centric leadership.

Let's go. Let's talk about you and, and take me back to where your career started. so start at the start.

Vanessa Bragg: Well, I really appreciate that you. You first said that, this is really important now more than ever. And I I absolutely believe that. I'll take you back to when I was involved in this type of leadership and I was very fortunate at a, very young point in my career. I was probably in my early 20s and I had a chro that was actually trained as a coach. And that was unheard of at that time. the ICF, the International Coaching Federation wasn't even formed till 1995 and this was the late 80s. So I was introduced to coaching through this leader and her approach was very people centric and she was a remarkable leader. And I have probably used most of what I learned from her throughout my entire career. And I have shared that with many leaders that I've worked with over the years, leaders that I've led, employees that have led. And it is very much that people centric focus.

Bart Egnal: Coaching is a skill that leaders should have. I mean I've had Michael Bungay Steiner on the podcast who wrote, you know, coaching Habit and just accepted. But as you said, when you started your career it wasn't. What did it mean for you at the time having a leader who was a coach? How did that impact your early experience in the corporate world?

Vanessa Bragg: Well, I probably had the most rapid growth with that leader than any other leader that I had in my entire career. And one of the things that she did is it's really holding people capable. And instead of being a telling and advising leader, what you're doing is you're lifting them to handle their own situations, their own problems. You're guiding them, coaching them, rather than telling them what to do. So the growth in that time period, and I was quite young and I was in a very senior position in my early twenties I was managing the HR for BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Roughly around 200 leaders, maybe about 20 district managers.

Bart Egnal: And this is for Reitman's Rightman's, a clothing store. Many people may not know of it.

Vanessa Bragg: It'S Canadian family owned retailer. and so I had quite a responsibility and of course you can imagine everything and everything happened in HR realm. But she wasn't a problem solver for me. She always asked me what would be my recommendation, how would I handle it. And then she would, you know, advise or adjust slightly or ask me some very insightful questions of how else I might do it, how, what else I might do. So instead of following orders, I was able to use my own talents and strengths because she has such a high level of trust in, in me. I mean they picked me and then they allowed me to Work in the best way possible because they believed in me.

Bart Egnal: So that really made an early impression then, I know it then led you to a, move into the world of hr. You've been inspired by her.

Vanessa Bragg: Exactly.

Bart Egnal: Talk a bit about that next step and how that, that people center to the beginning to shape your own philosophy of leadership.

Vanessa Bragg: Well, I've got a little bit of a story if you want me to tell you. It's a really good example for people to hear. I, you know, I, you know, very young, 25, managing all those retail, you know, multi units. And we had a leader that had done a very, poor job of, letting someone go. So it was a very poor termination. Lawyers were involved. I'd never dealt with a case like this before. And for our listeners out there, always talk to your HR person before you let someone go. So it was quite nasty situation, and I'd never dealt with anything like that before. So I, you know, I called my chro ah up, I said, hey, look, I've got the situation. And she listened. And then she said, well, I know you are able to figure this out, so go away and come back to me with a recommendation. So I did. She agreed with what I did, and I moved on. Everything went well. And that was her general approach to working with me. she never was the answer person. She never was the advisor. She asked me to use my own brain to solve problems. And through that there was just such enormous growth and trust. And you know what? I wanted to do great things for this organization and for her because she made me feel valued. She made me feel like I belonged. I want to make it clear that during that time, there was resources available to me, education, those types of things that always kept building me up and develop me, developing me along the way. So I was very. And of course that transferred down to my team. You, know, I was doing a lot of leadership development at the time, designing programs for the organization. So that theme ran through everything I did. And it also has run through my entire career. I've always had a bit of that leadership development arm in all my HR work or talent management, OD work. And that people centric practice to recognize that, you know, you create a culture where leaders and employees are supported, they're valued, they're empowered to do their best work.

Bart Egnal: So you kind of moved into roles where you were fostering that culture. So in m the first kind of part of your career, you had someone who demonstrated that people centric leadership for you had this tremendous acceleration of your growth.

Let you feel supported and do amazing things, then you're in a role, you're in some roles. And I know you said you've held roles in different organizations, different sectors, or you're, you're fostering that culture in others. What was the different, what were the challenges you began to experience? Because, you know, it all sounds great. You know, it does. Be a people centric leader. Support your people at all times back then. Don't be the answer person. Like, oh, okay, so what, what went wrong as you began to say, wow, I'm just gonna model myself after this. Inspiring Chro.

Vanessa Bragg: yes. It's not a perfect, perfect world, Bart. And a lot of the times you, you hit against, organizations or pockets in the organization that really want to do that traditional type of leadership like top down do and you know, always trying to create a movement within organizations I was in. So what I did find is there were leaders, that, you know, were people centric, and then there might be leaders in the organization that weren't. And what I saw from where I sat was the ones were, and believe me, in hr, we do all these surveys and assessments and engagement surveys. And so we see it that the ones that are more people centric had less turnover, higher engagement. You, you could almost track the, the development of people and see the, the, succession of their development from entry level into junior leadership and all the way up through the organization. So there has to be something to it, Bart, that if you hold people capable, you support them, you provide them the learning, you have this trusted, psychologically safe environment, people thrive. And guess what? You get the results you need. Because even though I'm a coach and I work in that whole people piece, I am, absolutely got my eye on strategy. We're the goals and outcomes that employees need to achieve. And I encourage leaders to constantly remind their employees that why we're here and what we're trying to achieve. And you know, if you've got a strat plan and there's particular goals and, and outcomes for your department, how are we all working together to achieve that? Ah, so resistance to change when you have top down, those are the most challenging areas to work in, I would say.

Bart Egnal: Okay, so the existence of change was one obstacle you face, and then it sounds like another obstacle was just some people philosophically are believers in top down. Is it that they're believers in there or that they're unable to practice anything else? What, what would you say?

Vanessa Bragg: I think there's two things. One is if they have always Worked in an environment that's top down. That's what they've learned, that's what they've modeled. But there's also another side that if a leader has low self awareness, I do a lot of emotional intelligence work as well. And I find that leaders that are lower in the self awareness area are harder to shift because they can't see themselves. And they're a little bit more difficult to shift the needle. Now. Not to say that it can't be done. I have worked with, leaders that have worked very hard to shift that because they know intrinsically that that's what they should be doing. But it's really changing habits and mindset to get them moving towards engaging people, you know, working with their staff in a more connected way. So that's how I see it. I see sort of two things. Either they're grown up with it, don't know anything different, or they can't see it. They need, they need help. A coach or a leader that helps them.

Yeah.

Bart Egnal: And so when, when you look at, as you went through your career, I mean it strikes me that when you talk about this kind of people centric leadership, there's, you're describing both individuals who you were encouraging to, to embrace this mindset and the skill set and also organizations. Right. And you're, and, and that resistance and, and interests exist in both. I mean, I think people listening probably have experiences where they've worked in an organization where the culture was authoritarian or. But they have a leader who, who really is committed to them and who is, you know, coaching, you know, coaches them. And so it's engaging. And then the inverse too, where maybe the broad culture of the organization is generally empowering and yet they're working for someone to work with a peer who is not. And so I wonder if you reflect on your time, how much of it was about the organization, shaping the organization that led to this kind of blossoming of this culture of leadership or how much of it was the people or was it equal parts?

Vanessa Bragg: That's a really good question. I love that question, Bart. I think it's a collaborative move. However, it really has to be from the top. And I did have the opportunity in the last organization I worked for to influence the C suite. And you know, we worked very hard to shift that to that more people, centric leadership. It's unfortunate the organization now is moving into a merger, so the culture will shift. But while I was there, we really worked on leadership development, psychological safety, inclusion, all those things. And we had absolute buy in from our executive team at that time. And that really helped because that created that safety where the employees were okay with taking some risk or innovating because there wasn't the fear there of not being experimental. And some really great things happened in the organization at the time. It grew and it was very progressive. and the engagement scores were fabulous. And that was a lot of work from the HR team, the learning team, our internal communications team, continually messaging and building that skill set within the organization of leaders being people focused.

Bart Egnal: So it really does start from the top and then that shapes everything.

Vanessa Bragg: It does, I would say in all the organizations I've worked for is a C suite. Has such a massive impact on how the organization, the tone of the organization. And you know, and if you think of that whole leadership piece is, you know, walking the talk and being a role model even right at the very top, people are watching you all the time when you're a leader and how you act, what you say, the language you use, how you treat people is integral in and it flows all the way through the organization.

Bart Egnal: So let's bring it into the place where you're coaching someone how to cultivate this kind of leadership. Someone listening and saying, I'm a member of the executive team. I'd like to practice this kind of people centric leadership. How do I go about doing it? What would be, you know, I know we talked about three, three things, three pieces of advice you have. Be present, use the language of leadership and communicate like a coach. Let's go through each of those and how people can begin to embody this.

So be present. Tell me about that. What does that mean and how does one cultivate that?

Vanessa Bragg: Being present is, that whole piece around empathy, active listening, speaking to your employees, finding out about them, asking, being curious, asking questions and really, understanding the strengths and the gifts they bring to your department or your organization. And that would be being present. And I've seen some CEOs just be brilliant at this.

Bart Egnal: Brilliant. So what does it look like? Tell me a story. Because you know, I think people listening would say those things just sound like table stakes. Know your audience, know your people, listen to them.

Vanessa Bragg: I think a lot of people say, but do they actually do it? so it's the actions that leaders take. It's absolutely, you know, walking down the hall and remembering that this person might have been off because they had a death in the family. And they know that and they check in with the person and they feel valued and they feel they belong Somewhere. I mean, that's just a simple gesture, but it's huge to an employee or another leader. so it's actually walking. You know, lots of people say, oh, we've got empathy, we do active listening, we're transparent. But do they actually do those behaviors? And that's where the rubber hits the cement as far as I'm concerned.

Bart Egnal: And another thing you mentioned around presence when we were around being present is you said something called connection before content. Can you talk about what that means?

Vanessa Bragg: Oh, that's a little trick I have in my toolkit. I really believe that before you dive into all the statistics and your goals and all the things you wanted to accomplish this month is spend a few minutes in your meetings or in your one on ones, connecting with the person before you go into the content of the meeting. And that's, you know, exactly what we did today, Bart, before we started this podcast, you asked me how my weekend was, you checked in with me, we laughed at the fact that we both caught a cold last week. These are little things that build a deeper relationship with your employee. Spend a few minutes up front finding out about them, ask them what, a success that they had last week, anything to have a bit of a conversation before you go into content. And that is a really simple thing you can do to build that trust. You can build the relationship and you really get to know your people.

Bart Egnal: Okay, so first step is be present. And what I'm taking away is it, may seem superficial, but you put the work and it matters to your audience and it's actually uncommon for people to practice that on a regular basis. Okay.

Vanessa Bragg: Yeah. And I would say it's a little move and I think it will give you great benefit.

Bart Egnal: Okay, then we get to step two or piece of advice. Two, Use the language of leadership. And I love this one because I wrote a book called Use the language of Leadership. So how fitting that you selected this. So tell me about what kind of language you should use and what kind you shouldn't use. If you want to practice this people centricity in your, in your work, it's.

Vanessa Bragg: It'S really more of a positive way of even handling difficult things. Let's say you have, an employee that's just not meeting expectations. Expectations. Instead of saying, hey, you know, James, you're not meeting expectations, you know, the person goes into fight or flight into shock, why not do it? Just change the language up where. Let's review the progress, against the goals we've set. How can I support you to achieve Them, where are you at? What do you need? It's just changing the language from that sort of, it makes a person feel uncomfortable to how are we in this together? I mean, it doesn't mean you don't hold an employee accountable. Absolutely. I'm not talking about that. But just how you phrase it and how you use the language, again, that creates that psychological safety. Again, that creates that trust. And you know, you're not blindsiding your employees with something that, you know, they may not be aware of. It's just, it's really doing a collaborative coach approach to handling everything from a positive to a negative situation.

Bart Egnal: It's, it's so true. And I think, you know, you hit the nail on the head, which is to avoid unnecessary negatives while not shying away from realities. You know, and it's too often people are unaware of the impact of things like, you know, just using a negative to, you know, counterfactual say, well, you didn't, you didn't mess that one up, you know, as opposed to saying you did a good job. Right? I mean it's really the same substance. Or if someone does four things well and one thing's better, it's like, look, there's one, you know, you didn't get that thing right, or why didn't you get that? Versus look, overall this was well done. There is an area we can, we can improve on. Right?

I want to talk about that. but I want to put that in the context of how well you've done. And, and we see this, you know, with many leaders, they'll also. Sometimes the language isn't just negative in terms of eliminating psychological safety with their, you know, audiences, but can also be minimizing. We call these mincing or minimizing modifiers. We'll say, well, you know, I could be wrong about this, or this is just my opinion. So that it's, it's totally, an important thing to begin to develop that self awareness around it. I wonder if you reflect on your, your time in the corporate world, can you think back to a leader really maybe was using the wrong kind of language, but wasn't aware of the impact they were having because of it.

Vanessa Bragg: Actually that's an area that I have coached on numerous times. And what helps with that is I do do a lot of emotional intelligence work and eqi, assessment tool, leadership assessment tool. And sometimes I use that as a baseline to work with a leader that has that EQI challenge, which they tend to be, more of how they Speak and how they act as more of the downward spiral instead of upward. Inspiring.

Bart Egnal: Can you give me an example? Like can you tell me a story? Make make the person anonymous, but tell me a story of someone who fit in that profile.

Vanessa Bragg: You know, I, I had a, A le. Quite a high level leadership, leader would be. I'd call a senior leader. Not quite in the VP suite but had a, quite a big team engagement challenges. So this just could not, she could not figure out why she wasn't getting the results needed the, the engagement she needed. And you know a coach peels it all back. And she wasn't an unkind person. She wasn't someone that was spiteful or mean. But how she spoke to her staff and how she dealt with difficult things was always quite negative.

Bart Egnal: Like what would she say?

Vanessa Bragg: You know, it was more like parent.

Bart Egnal: it was you know, condescending or patriot.

Vanessa Bragg: A little bit, bit, a little bit you know, creep. You know, it made the person cringe.

Bart Egnal: Right.

Vanessa Bragg: So it, and that was where the area that we spent a lot of time on is how to rephrase things in a positive way rather than saying things like, you know, I don't have time for you right now. You know, you're not meeting expectations, you're always late. You got to improve on this. Well, let's get underneath that, find out what's going on with person. And, and I still hear from that Kochi years later.

Bart Egnal: Were they surprised at the impact their language was having?

Vanessa Bragg: Yes they were. And that self awareness piece, now this particular coachee, her self awareness was lower. So how do you raise that self awareness where they understand the intent and the impact that they're having on people. And I think that's really clear. Your intent might not be to hurt an employee or another leader's feelings, but what you say and do can have a significant impact. So that's another little thing I have in my pocket that I use is, you know, think about the intent and impact. It might feel great for you, but it might not for the, the other leader or the other employee. So connection before content in you know, intent and impact, they're easy things to remember as you're working with people and being people focused.

Bart Egnal: Like the language is that people focus. It's not about what's comfortable for you. It's about how it hits the audience positively or negatively.

Vanessa Bragg: Right, right. And you know Bart, I think it's important, and you brought it up earlier, is, you know, being people focused does not mean that you not wanting to keep your eye on strategy and the goals and what the organization needs to achieve. You're inspiring, embracing people, holding them capable, working with their talents to get those things. You get your ROI if you treat people with respect, you collaborate them and you bring the best out of them.

Bart Egnal: I love it. I love it.

And, and getting the best out of them leads us to our third and final communication pointer, which is to communicate like a coach. Tell me what this means. I guess this is if you can't hire Vanessa Bragg Coaching and consulting, you can communicate like a coach or you can do both. So what does it look like when you're not communicating like a coach and what does it mean to shift and embrace that approach?

Vanessa Bragg: Well, I would stay away from telling and the advice realm and be curious, ask a lot of questions. This is, you know, what not to do or what to, you know, slow down and try something new is stay out of that advising parenting area and move into that, the coach approach, which is more inquiry, asking questions, figuring out what they're thinking, supporting that thinking, or adding more as part of their growth. And this is a real growth, mindset piece versus, you know, keeping things fixed, fixed and closed. It's really allowing people to do their best work.

Bart Egnal: So with this, don't give advice, ask questions. So part of them says, oh, that makes perfect sense. No one likes to be told what to do. But the other part says, all right, you're an executive or you're a leader. You have people who you want to drive and help perform. Sometimes you have to tell them this is the goal, this is what you have to deliver. How do you reconcile or do you.

Vanessa Bragg: They go hand in hand, the accountability and the growth and development of your people. So I don't, you know, I really want to be clear that I'm, you know, I'm not looking at this through rose colored glasses. I mean, I want, as a coach, I want the leaders that I work with to achieve and reach the goals that they need to for the organization to, again, to go to that strat plan. So how can you get the best out of your people to do that? And that's the approach with communicating like a coach. Using the language that uplifts. I mean, this whole podcast is a, about inspiring, being a leader that inspires people to do their best work. And I think, I think organizations will reap the benefits. I really do.

Bart Egnal: Yeah. And I think, look, you know, not everyone will embrace it, but you never know unless you create that environment, provide that inspiring leadership and coach and support people and give them the support to grow and thrive. And so I think I totally agree with you. You know, as a leader, you're. You should be people centric. We know from employees they want that and that's what inspires them to do their best work. So it makes. Even though it's not a panacea or an automatic win, it's what people. What really cultivates top. Top talent, top performers in the world.

Vanessa Bragg: Yeah, it's exciting, isn't it?

Bart Egnal: It is exciting.

What would your last question. Let's say you're coaching someone. They say, look, Vanessa, I've been practicing this kind of people centric leadership with my team. I have a leader who just is not giving me anything back. They give me mediocre energy. They've told me, you know what, I've been here 30 years. Don't really feel about going much above and beyond. I'm going to do my job, you know, got pride of work, but that's it. What. What advice would you have to them?

Vanessa Bragg: So, just let me get this clear, is it's a leader that has a leader that's not supporting their leader. Okay. Okay, good.

Bart Egnal: Yeah, exactly.

Vanessa Bragg: I'll tell you what, I would, you know, coach that person to do is within the parameters, you know, that maybe the, you know, the psychological safety isn't 100% there. Do the best you possibly can with the gifts that you have. And I honestly believe if you do that, it'll start rising up and then, you know, maybe that leader will see the success that you're having and the engagement in your team. And if they, you know, organizations like numbers and stats and they don't like turnover over. They want retention. So if that leader's creating that environment that will support the work that he or she is doing or they are.

Bart Egnal: Doing, I love it.

Well, Vanessa, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your journey. And I know it's. It's, I can see why you left the corporate world and started your own practice because of the passion that you have for taking your experiences and your philosophy around people and sharing them. Now as a coach and working with our clients in the Humphrey Group, I think it's a message nowadays that is really in. In need. You, know, and we're now seeing, I think in the business world, a shift away from people centric leadership. You know, I saw a headline recently that said, you know, the air. I think it was the Wall Street Journal said, bosses are through being nice. Kind of saying, like, they're proud of it.

Vanessa Bragg: And, and so this is not being nice. Let's not, you know, emotional intelligence is not being nice. Emotional intelligence is, you know, regulating yourself and managing yourself and, and how you emote yourself and how you react to people. So, again, still want to achieve all the goals those leaders want to achieve. I think it's, it can be a bit dangerous. I think, you know, you want people to want to be in your organization. You want your brand to shine. You want your clients to be satisfied with, whatever service you're providing. And I think, with this type of approach to, helping people grow and thrive and strive and stay and speak about their organization in a positive way is this is what they'll get.

Bart Egnal: Oh, I love it. So thanks for sharing. And if people want to learn more, where can they connect with you, and keep this conversation going?

Vanessa Bragg: Well, I am on LinkedIn, Vanessa Bragg, and absolutely send me an IM or, I can be reached @vanessabragg.com I have a website as well and I, really appreciate you having me today.

Bart Egnal: It's been fun. Thanks so much for the conversation. I'm sure everyone listening will enjoy it too. So go forth, inspire, and keep being people centric.

Vanessa Bragg: Thank you so much, Bart. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Bart Egnal: Thanks. I hope you enjoyed that episode of the Inspire podcast in the conversation that I had, with our guests. And hopefully you left with some really practical, tangible tools and tips that you can use to be more consistently inspirational. If you're enjoying the pod, I'll ask you a favor. Please rate and review it. I love the comments, appreciate the reviews and the visibility allows others to discover the pod. It's really how word of mouth has spread the Inspire podcast to so many listeners and helped us keep making this great content. Stay tuned. We'll be back in two weeks with another inspiring conversation. Thanks so much for listening. Go forth and inspire.

Vanessa Bragg: SA.